【映画 国宝】あまねくクリエイター、表現者は必見！【考察】【映画解説】【切り抜き版】
I saw it. “National Treasure” You two have seen it too, haven’t you? It’s getting more and more popular through word of mouth. Wow, it was really interesting. It was one of my favorite movies. What did you think? It was three hours long. No, I didn’t get bored at all during those three hours. It went by so quickly. That was good. It felt like the time was really short. I couldn’t take my eyes off it. Because of the development. It was surprisingly three hours long, but it developed so quickly. There was always something unfolding, and it was packed with 50 years, so the story didn’t drag on at all, and there were quite a few cuts in the setting scenes, so it felt like the story was progressing at a rapid pace. Even though it was three hours long, it felt like it was still being cut out. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to see more. There was more here, wasn’t there? Show me more! What did you think, Ikuni? “National Treasure” No, it was really good. I’ve always thought that there hasn’t been a film like this , a film about traditional performing arts and people’s lives, I’m sure there are if you look for them, but I haven’t seen much of anything like that. Well, there have been a lot of films that use traditional performing arts as their subject matter, haven’t there? But this was Kabuki, and more specifically, Kabuki from Kyoto. Kamigata Kabuki. It was really fresh. Also, it’s really interesting when you look at it as having two main characters, as expected. If it was just a sad story about Kikuo, I don’t think it would have been that popular, but the fact that there were two of them, Shunsuke and Kikuo, was really good. It was a story about brothers. The child actors in the first half were really good. Oh, the child actors were really good too. They were sexy and good. Oh, they were sexy. They were sexy. They were sexy. That sweat dripping down. They were sparkling. No, but it’s absolutely necessary for a Kabuki actor. And then, you know, life, you know, you share it, and human relationships continue, right? At the beginning, Kikuo is at the Yakuza’s house, and during New Year’s, his father gets killed, and at the beginning, Kikuo’s partner is there, right? He has a partner who performs with him, right? And then Shunsuke appears as if to replace him. It’s like they’re swapping lives, passing them on. At one point, the heroine also gets together with Shunsuke, and they have a child. It’s like they’re passing on the bloodline and passing on the life, and there’s a way of showing it. That part was really good to watch. Um, I forgot what the name of the actor played by Watanabe Ken was. Yes, the father, the acting instruction from the father was also like that. Was it something that was passed down orally, in Kabuki? Was it something like Rakugo? Actually, I didn’t know much about it , but I’ve seen Kabuki in general, all kinds of places. In the middle of it, I went to see Tanaka Min’s performance of a national treasure, and then after he grew up, Tanaka Min would ask people to teach him how to act, right? It seems like they do a lot of things like that, teaching each other under the guidance of people from the same family, or going to ask for instruction. Wow. Haseko, you know a lot about it. No, I like it. I like Kabuki, actually. Even though I’m dressed like this. And then, of course, feelings of inferiority and jealousy tend to intertwine quite a bit, don’t they? As it was a succession, things like bloodline and father came up, and there were all these stories about whether he was chosen or not, whether he was the real father or not, and so on. There was a lot of talk about blood ties, and in the drama there was also a story about the girl that Kikuo left behind at the beginning, and there was talk about real blood ties and whether they were connected or not. And then ego. Ego and jealousy are constantly intertwined. That’s where the emotions that inevitably confront those who create and express things are expressed well, and that was also good. The part about art and life, the two don’t really match up. The way Kikuo is portrayed, especially as he becomes more and more absorbed in art rather than life, and the director Lee Sang-il also said in an interview that he wanted to make a film like “Farewell, My Love” someday, and that film was exactly the same as the half-life, or rather the death, of a person who could only make it through art. I thought it was definitely in a similar genre. It’s the one with Chen Kaige. “Farewell, My Love.” I thought “Farewell, My Love” was a bit similar to that Farewell My Concubine, wasn’t it? It ‘s a story about a person who can only live that way. That’s why he couldn’t choose. It’s not about good or bad, it’s a story about a person who can only live that way. So, whether they have a bloodline or not, it’s the way of life of a person who has no choice. That overlaps quite a bit with the feelings of many artists and creators. It’s not about good or bad, it’s not about having talent or not, it’s just that I don’t know any other way to live. So, being chosen or not chosen can be cruel, but you overcome that and just have to do it. When we performed “The Love Suicides at Sonezaki” and Kikuo was on stage, Shunsuke left with Harue. That part was like a separation between Kikuo, who lives in his art, and the rest of it. That was a very memorable scene. That part was so painful. “The Love Suicides at Sonezaki” is one of my favorite plays, written by someone called Chikamatsu Monzaemon, and it was made into a play based on research into a double suicide that actually happened in Osaka. It wasn’t originally a Kabuki play, it was a Joruri Joruri play, but the theme of Joruri plays is not usually about a person, but about the fate of that person, or “destiny.” There are many plays that depict the sadness of being at the mercy of a destiny that has been decided from the beginning, rather than the individual’s will , and so that is the theme, and the fact that this time it was based on “The Love Suicides at Sonezaki” and centered on that, I was really moved by the brilliance of the original work, and the brilliance of the movie that properly visualized it. Yes. I should have gone to see it with someone who knew more about it. But it was interesting even without knowing, wasn’t it? What did you think of Gami-chan? Yes. I’ve only seen rakugo at best, but even so, the images were amazing, and it had a powerful impact that conveyed the feeling that something amazing was happening. It’s a really stupid comment, but it was kind of funny to imagine myself listening to rakugo in the form of Gami-chan right now, and it was fun to imagine it (laughs). If I was in a seat like that, I’d get kicked out (laughs). Do you ever watch kabuki , Ikuhara-san? Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever seen kabuki. Oh, that’s right. Really? Let’s go next time. I recommend it. Well, according to one theory, it’s said that Tamasaburo’s chase was the model. That’s what I thought when I was watching it. I felt that even his casual clothes in his later years were a bit like Tamasaburo’s. And also Kikuo’s clothes at the end. Tamasaburo himself wasn’t from the Kabuki world. He came from outside, so I think it’s a very important motif as a theme. So I was watching it thinking it was kind of fictional, but isn’t that necessarily the case? Well, I suppose it is fiction. But it is fiction. I don’t think there are many people who start off in such an amazing way. He has a really impressive tattoo on his back. Well, speaking of tattoos, the one that really got to me was the owl tattoo, wasn’t it? So, you know, in the dialogue it says that “the owl brings snakes” and is a sign of good fortune. So, there is a play called “Futari Dojoji” where two people dance on a bell. The main character dancing in Dojoji, or rather the Shirabyoshi, is actually a snake incarnate. After that, there is a play where he really transforms into a snake incarnate and goes on a rampage. When they take it off, there is a Zelda-like crest on the clothes, which is a scale crest that lets you know it is a snake, but I thought it was clever that it was hinted at from the beginning that they are destined to perform “Futari Dojoji” again ! I see. Even if something happens and the two of them are separated, it is destined to be there again, it is already decided from the beginning , and the human relationships between the two of them go in and out, don’t they? It’s the same with entering and leaving the Kabuki family, and the female partner going in and out. So it’s really interesting that blood, that family, that human relationships go in and out all the time. Also, the part about “entering the form”, being a female actor means entering the form, and that means living, and there is no choice but to do it. That was also very earnest. I feel that people who express something, artists, creators, are really touched by that earnestness. It’s not a matter of having talent or not. You just have to do it. There’s nowhere to go, no place to return to. For that character, I think it has to be Mankiku, played by Tanaka Min. That role was also incredibly dramatic, and the feeling that there was nothing in the final room was also incredible. He said that an actor is merely a vessel. He’s just a container. He says that he doesn’t take anything with him. Well, that’s what it is. Those hand movements were incredible. Ah, the part where he beckons. Yes, yes, that’s right. Tanaka Min himself was originally a butoh dancer, so his movements were really graceful. That’s right. He himself said that he was really in a place far removed from this kind of kabuki. But as an artist, he was someone who lived his life with the idea that “I have no choice but to do it,” so it wasn’t about good or bad, or what was expected or not, but “I have no choice but to do it.” I think that this was able to convey a sense of urgency well. The director’s film, “Shunkin Sho,” was also a similar double suicide story. It’s the same in the sense that you can’t choose how to live your life. And it goes beyond good or bad or morality, it’s the only thing you can do, you have to do it, and there’s only the bond there. In that sense, it’s similar to “Shunkin Sho.” It’s about how you go, and beyond that there’s beauty, well, in the case of Shunkin, it was the tone of her voice, but the art and the way she lives. Did you have any thoughts on how to interpret that when you made “Shunkin Sho”? Yes, I think it was about depicting a way of life that goes beyond good or evil, beyond morality, and “a person who can only live that way.” It’s not about good and evil. It’s true that “I can only live that way.” I think there are people like that. And I think that when artists get to the bottom of it, it’s inevitable that they end up there. Success or failure is just superficial, being able to make a living or not is just superficial, and they can only live that way. But there was a scene in “National Treasure” where he sold his soul to the devil, or rather the devil, which I didn’t quite get, right? He put his hands together like this to the Benzaiten or whatever it was. I didn’t really get that line, but now I feel like I understand it a little better. He entered into an art that was separate from good and evil. That’s why I think Kikuo was probably unaware of it at the time. And he got caught up in the curse he put on himself. And in the end, that curse he put on himself got caught up in him and we see that final scene. What kind of curse is it, and what will happen to it? That last scene will reveal that. It’s a beautiful curse, isn’t it? Well, whether it’s a curse, fate, art, or beauty, as I watch and think about it, it changes again, and I think, oh, so that’s what it meant, and it’s probably a cinematic editing technique that goes beyond the original, and it’s well-made, and it’s detailed, and it’s nicely done, and it brings together all the nuances , and that was really good too. This channel is also a “cinema snack bar of fate,” so there’s been a lot of horror lately, so maybe I’ll call it a “curse.” We’re all drawn to this bar by something, after all. I want to see that view, and someone attacks Gami-chan on New Year’s Day and something terrible happens (laughs). I’d like to come and see it again if I have time. That’s right. Let’s go see some kabuki while Haseko explains a little . I’m looking forward to seeing the kabuki. Please subscribe to the channel and rate it highly. We look forward to seeing you again.
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